Comments for True Quest http://truequestoutfitters.com Making Sense of Life Fri, 04 May 2012 16:05:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 Comment on Loving What God Loves; Hating What He Hates by Garth Oliver http://truequestoutfitters.com/loving-what-god-loves-hating-what-he-hates/comment-page-1/#comment-9279 Garth Oliver Fri, 04 May 2012 16:05:48 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=213#comment-9279 David, Thanks for visiting the site, and for participating in the discussion. The depth of God's love toward sinners, as demonstrated in the death of Jesus on our behalf is astounding, and I am not taking anything away from that. John 3:16, and similar passages are absolutley true, and I want to handle them accurately, giving them the full weight due them. But passages like Romans 9:10-13 are just as true. This passage explicitly states that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, and He made that choice even before they were born and had done anything good or bad. So, His hatred of Esau is not simply a hatred of Esau's sin. I believe that this passage is just as true as John 3:16, and I want to handle it just as accurately, giving it the full weight due it. This is the tension that I have set out to explore in this series of articles. We were created to represent God, and that requires that we align ourselves with Him. I hope you'll will continue to follow along as I explore this issues in the articles that follow. David,
Thanks for visiting the site, and for participating in the discussion.

The depth of God’s love toward sinners, as demonstrated in the death of Jesus on our behalf is astounding, and I am not taking anything away from that. John 3:16, and similar passages are absolutley true, and I want to handle them accurately, giving them the full weight due them.
But passages like Romans 9:10-13 are just as true. This passage explicitly states that God hated Esau and loved Jacob, and He made that choice even before they were born and had done anything good or bad. So, His hatred of Esau is not simply a hatred of Esau’s sin. I believe that this passage is just as true as John 3:16, and I want to handle it just as accurately, giving it the full weight due it.
This is the tension that I have set out to explore in this series of articles. We were created to represent God, and that requires that we align ourselves with Him. I hope you’ll will continue to follow along as I explore this issues in the articles that follow.

]]> Comment on Loving What God Loves; Hating What He Hates by David Duruji http://truequestoutfitters.com/loving-what-god-loves-hating-what-he-hates/comment-page-1/#comment-9277 David Duruji Fri, 04 May 2012 09:54:32 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=213#comment-9277 This is quite thought provoking. However i think that the only thing that God hates is sin. God does not hate sinners - John 3:16. This is why he gave us His only son to die for the remission of our sins. God does not want anyone to die in their sins. Rather He gives us opportunities daily to reconcile ourselves back to Himself. He is ever willing to forgive and take us back. We as humans will be making a big mistake by hating fellow humans in the guise that God hates them. He does not hate no one. This is quite thought provoking. However i think that the only thing that God hates is sin. God does not hate sinners – John 3:16. This is why he gave us His only son to die for the remission of our sins. God does not want anyone to die in their sins. Rather He gives us opportunities daily to reconcile ourselves back to Himself. He is ever willing to forgive and take us back. We as humans will be making a big mistake by hating fellow humans in the guise that God hates them. He does not hate no one.

]]> Comment on Exploring Dependence – Learning Dependence by Ed http://truequestoutfitters.com/exploring-dependence-learning-dependence/comment-page-1/#comment-8593 Ed Tue, 10 Apr 2012 12:56:49 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=694#comment-8593 Your article on learning dependence had a lot of merit. One of the things that we have been learning since our son's passing is that God wants to take care of us and that he usually does that through the hands of the body of believers. It was difficult to step back and let him provide even though we were weary, burnt out, and needed every bit of it. We have always been eager to give and help others, but it was hard to receive help because we felt unworthy, that we had not earned it. Letting go of that merit-based system was difficult, but we are better off for letting go. God used it to bless us and also bless those who wanted to do something for us that expressed their love for us in tangible ways. Your article on learning dependence had a lot of merit. One of the things that we have been learning since our son’s passing is that God wants to take care of us and that he usually does that through the hands of the body of believers. It was difficult to step back and let him provide even though we were weary, burnt out, and needed every bit of it. We have always been eager to give and help others, but it was hard to receive help because we felt unworthy, that we had not earned it. Letting go of that merit-based system was difficult, but we are better off for letting go. God used it to bless us and also bless those who wanted to do something for us that expressed their love for us in tangible ways.

]]> Comment on Exploring Dependence – Reviewing the Evidence by Chuck Nelson http://truequestoutfitters.com/exploring-dependence-reviewing-the-evidence/comment-page-1/#comment-8242 Chuck Nelson Mon, 02 Apr 2012 13:50:09 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=679#comment-8242 I printed this post off to read at lunch last week and I find myself target fixated on the statement: "In other words, it will cost you everything. Your agenda and your means. There is no room for any competing agenda. No place for keeping back resources to be used as you wish, to live independently of Christ." I want to blow past this, but the conviction is too great. My faith does not cost me everything - it only costs what I am willing to let it cost and that just means I do what I want to do as it relates to my faith. Sure, there are some things I do not do because of my faith, but this is not even close to costing everything. There are things I do for the faith, but to be honest, I like doing them - so there is not cost there. As for competing agenda, there are days where He is lucky to be in the top 5 of my priorities. I plan out my day. I am organized. He gets his time slot, but what if He wants more - or even a different time slot? The mere fact that He is on the same page with other to-dos means He has to compete for my time - and this is just for reading His word and praying. What if He asked me to gulp, deal with someone I want to ignore, resolve the issue with my wife that we both know is there? Insert myself in strength into my kid's electronic hell (that I created) and engauge them in a way that means something? The reality is I do what I want. I work, I play, I spend, and I serve on Him on my terms. As for money, He gets His and I get mine. The problem is, it's all His and I do not act like it. I cannot remember the last time I prayed and waited for an answer about spending money for something less than $100 (that is a spiritual way of giving you the impression that I pray and wait for an answer for things over $100). Either way, the decision matrix reality is the same. Garth, thank you for saying what needs to be said. It is heard and I pray applied. I printed this post off to read at lunch last week and I find myself target fixated on the statement:

“In other words, it will cost you everything. Your agenda and your means. There is no room for any competing agenda. No place for keeping back resources to be used as you wish, to live independently of Christ.”

I want to blow past this, but the conviction is too great. My faith does not cost me everything – it only costs what I am willing to let it cost and that just means I do what I want to do as it relates to my faith.

Sure, there are some things I do not do because of my faith, but this is not even close to costing everything. There are things I do for the faith, but to be honest, I like doing them – so there is not cost there.

As for competing agenda, there are days where He is lucky to be in the top 5 of my priorities. I plan out my day. I am organized. He gets his time slot, but what if He wants more – or even a different time slot? The mere fact that He is on the same page with other to-dos means He has to compete for my time – and this is just for reading His word and praying. What if He asked me to gulp, deal with someone I want to ignore, resolve the issue with my wife that we both know is there? Insert myself in strength into my kid’s electronic hell (that I created) and engauge them in a way that means something?

The reality is I do what I want. I work, I play, I spend, and I serve on Him on my terms.

As for money, He gets His and I get mine. The problem is, it’s all His and I do not act like it. I cannot remember the last time I prayed and waited for an answer about spending money for something less than $100 (that is a spiritual way of giving you the impression that I pray and wait for an answer for things over $100). Either way, the decision matrix reality is the same.

Garth, thank you for saying what needs to be said. It is heard and I pray applied.

]]> Comment on Exploring Dependence – Rich Young Ruler & Going to Heaven by Garth Oliver http://truequestoutfitters.com/exploring-dependence-rich-young-ruler-going-to-heaven/comment-page-1/#comment-7575 Garth Oliver Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:51:50 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=594#comment-7575 Not sure why the formatting worked like it did, but my answer continues outside the white comment box. Not sure why the formatting worked like it did, but my answer continues outside the white comment box.

]]> Comment on Exploring Dependence – Rich Young Ruler & Going to Heaven by Garth Oliver http://truequestoutfitters.com/exploring-dependence-rich-young-ruler-going-to-heaven/comment-page-1/#comment-7574 Garth Oliver Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:49:36 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=594#comment-7574 I think you are understanding it pretty well. I would say that at a very fundamental level, faith is categorical. We either place our faith in Christ, and are justified, or we don't, and are not (Romans 3:21-26). This faith, and accompanying justification, gains us introduction into the grace in which we stand (Romans 5:1). At this point, it begins to look more dimensional. <li>Having begun by faith, we must now continue to choose to walk in faith. It is in this way that we are made complete (Galatians 3:1-3ff; cf. Colossians 1:23ff; 1 Timothy 2:15; 6:10).</li> <li>Our faith can be either complete or incomplete (1 Thessalonians 3:10), but again, this relates to maturity, not justification.</li> <li>The expectation is that our faith will grow (2 Corinthians 10:15; 2 Thessalonians 1:3).</li> <li>Our faith can be characterized in terms of its stability (Colossians 2:5, 7ff; Titus 2:2; 1 Peter 5:9</li> <li>Our faith will be tested (James 1:3) and proven (1 Peter 1:7).</li> <li>As we endure in the testing of our faith, we are made complete (James 1:2-4).</li> <li>We can either be weak in faith or strong in faith (Romans 14:1-15:13 - contrast 14:1 w/ 15:1). But here, we should note that strength/weakness relates to what we believe about our freedom, not the intensity of our faith.</li> This is a critical issue to be clear on. Confusion about what we are calling the categorical and dimensional aspects of faith leads to fear, uncertainty, frustration, and false doctrine. Great question! I think you are understanding it pretty well.
I would say that at a very fundamental level, faith is categorical. We either place our faith in Christ, and are justified, or we don’t, and are not (Romans 3:21-26).
This faith, and accompanying justification, gains us introduction into the grace in which we stand (Romans 5:1).
At this point, it begins to look more dimensional.

  • Having begun by faith, we must now continue to choose to walk in faith. It is in this way that we are made complete (Galatians 3:1-3ff; cf. Colossians 1:23ff; 1 Timothy 2:15; 6:10).
  • Our faith can be either complete or incomplete (1 Thessalonians 3:10), but again, this relates to maturity, not justification.
  • The expectation is that our faith will grow (2 Corinthians 10:15; 2 Thessalonians 1:3).
  • Our faith can be characterized in terms of its stability (Colossians 2:5, 7ff; Titus 2:2; 1 Peter 5:9
  • Our faith will be tested (James 1:3) and proven (1 Peter 1:7).
  • As we endure in the testing of our faith, we are made complete (James 1:2-4).
  • We can either be weak in faith or strong in faith (Romans 14:1-15:13 – contrast 14:1 w/ 15:1). But here, we should note that strength/weakness relates to what we believe about our freedom, not the intensity of our faith.

    • This is a critical issue to be clear on. Confusion about what we are calling the categorical and dimensional aspects of faith leads to fear, uncertainty, frustration, and false doctrine.
    Great question!

    ]]>         Comment on Exploring Dependence – Rich Young Ruler & Going to Heaven by Alexis http://truequestoutfitters.com/exploring-dependence-rich-young-ruler-going-to-heaven/comment-page-1/#comment-7539 Alexis Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:17:44 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=594#comment-7539 You are hearing the question right. And, as I studied this, this morning over some of the discussion of justification and scriptures we have reviewed, what I read seems to suggest that it is categorically determined by God who can judge our belief and heart. I suppose the dimensional part I was getting confused about yesterday after reading this has to do with how much people are manifesting the characteristics of the Christ or how much of the gospel they believe, have the capacity to understand or envision, or can apply in life. For example, I remember loaning a great book: The Reason for God to someone I thought had 'strong belief' (I'm sort of using belief and faith interchangeably here) and was far along in her walk and remembering her say, "Ugh, this book reminded me of where I struggle in my faith." I don't think she meant she struggled with whether she believed Jesus was the Christ or not. I think she meant she struggled with how limited we can be to interpret or explain or understand details at times. You are hearing the question right. And, as I studied this, this morning over some of the discussion of justification and scriptures we have reviewed, what I read seems to suggest that it is categorically determined by God who can judge our belief and heart. I suppose the dimensional part I was getting confused about yesterday after reading this has to do with how much people are manifesting the characteristics of the Christ or how much of the gospel they believe, have the capacity to understand or envision, or can apply in life. For example, I remember loaning a great book: The Reason for God to someone I thought had ‘strong belief’ (I’m sort of using belief and faith interchangeably here) and was far along in her walk and remembering her say, “Ugh, this book reminded me of where I struggle in my faith.” I don’t think she meant she struggled with whether she believed Jesus was the Christ or not. I think she meant she struggled with how limited we can be to interpret or explain or understand details at times.

    ]]>         Comment on Exploring Dependence – Rich Young Ruler & Going to Heaven by Garth Oliver http://truequestoutfitters.com/exploring-dependence-rich-young-ruler-going-to-heaven/comment-page-1/#comment-7487 Garth Oliver Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:37:04 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=594#comment-7487 Thanks, Alexis. I think I see where you are going, but let me make sure. If I understand your question correctly, you are asking if faith is something that we may have in varying degrees (dimensional), or if it is something that we either have, or we don't (categorical). Am I hearing you right? Thanks, Alexis.
    I think I see where you are going, but let me make sure. If I understand your question correctly, you are asking if faith is something that we may have in varying degrees (dimensional), or if it is something that we either have, or we don’t (categorical). Am I hearing you right?

    ]]>         Comment on Exploring Dependence – Rich Young Ruler & Going to Heaven by Alexis http://truequestoutfitters.com/exploring-dependence-rich-young-ruler-going-to-heaven/comment-page-1/#comment-7486 Alexis Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:47:18 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=594#comment-7486 Garth, We cannot thank you enough for your blog--each entry just grows us. Thank you for sharing your teaching gift. Although, I've gotten a lot more comfortable living in the questions and trusting step-by-step, and I know this is trod ground for our group, but in the end of this entry, you ask what questions this raises. I don't know if a straight answer is available or necessary even, but in the interest of sharing, these questions come up: Is faith dimensional or categorical? Do you see where I'm going with this...? Garth, We cannot thank you enough for your blog–each entry just grows us. Thank you for sharing your teaching gift. Although, I’ve gotten a lot more comfortable living in the questions and trusting step-by-step, and I know this is trod ground for our group, but in the end of this entry, you ask what questions this raises. I don’t know if a straight answer is available or necessary even, but in the interest of sharing, these questions come up: Is faith dimensional or categorical? Do you see where I’m going with this…?

    ]]>         Comment on Exploring Dependence – Israel Misses the Point by Garth Oliver http://truequestoutfitters.com/exploring-dependence-israel-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-6050 Garth Oliver Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:06:46 +0000 http://truequestoutfitters.com/?p=542#comment-6050 Hey, John! Good to hear from you. Sorry it took me a little while to get to your post. Yes, man has a history of forgetting God. He will only tolerate that for so long. Fortunately for Israel, of all the countries that have ever existed, they alone have God's promise of restoration of a future. Hey, John!

    Good to hear from you. Sorry it took me a little while to get to your post.

    Yes, man has a history of forgetting God. He will only tolerate that for so long. Fortunately for Israel, of all the countries that have ever existed, they alone have God’s promise of restoration of a future.

    ]]>